The Puma

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[shockcoil]

I posted some of the stats when we were discussing the coaxial buff. Can't remember off the top of my head but suffice it so say it is significant, probably more so than the moving accuracy.

[puddin]

Its the Coaxal Gun....   It does the same amount of dmg as the 80mp and 10 mu mineweepers do... 

Not to mention its not a viable 2nd option to the main gun being destroyed because it will die at that point to small arms fire before it can do dmg... 

So a Unit that underperforms at its price gets an increase and buff to moving accuracy to make it worth it.... Then, The COAXAL gun is the reaosning for increasing the price... 

If you show me a usefullness on the Coaxal gun, especially on the 50mm puma.... I will shit a golden brick. 

[LeoPhone]

sry puddin, u fail this time

# mg42_coaxial_generic_puma.rgd
  | Zaxis S DPS = 15.11
  | Zaxis M DPS = 8.52
  | Zaxis L DPS = 4.7

 mg42_lmg.rgd
  | Zaxis S DPS = 21.02
  | Zaxis M DPS = 6.29
  | Zaxis L DPS = 2.37

# m1918_browning_automatic_rifle.rgd
  | Zaxis S DPS = 16.01
  | Zaxis M DPS = 7.02
  | Zaxis L DPS = 2.09

[PonySlaystation]

The 20mm Puma is good against infantry but the 50mm Puma is still useless against vehicles. It's supposed to be a counter to Greyhounds and Staghounds. But the Greyhounds always win while also performing much better in the AI aspect.

[XIIcorps]

not really now the stags hp has been nerfed, 50mm pumas are a real problem. they also excel in rushing Fireflies

[puddin]

ok then Leo i guess i will shit a golden Briick. 

Now why don;t we start the discussion with those stats?

Also, the 50mm Puma is like the tetchriarch....  Its useless against inf for the most part... so pure AT, while Effective, the pop keeps them from wolf packign and really being overly viable. 

I have used pumas quite a bit and the lack of speed or hitting invisibale pathign objects and boucing and stoping and then restarting is always painful. 

I Feel as tho the Puma finally got effective For its previous price.

I don;t get why an underperforming unit, no one uses gets a buff and a price increase all at the same time. 

[Hicks58]

Also, the 50mm Puma is like the tetchriarch....  Its useless against inf for the most part... so pure AT, while Effective, the pop keeps them from wolf packign and really being overly viable. 

50mm Puma can snipe infantry reliably when they are out of cover, and it's coax can chop them up pretty nicely at close range. It's speed and dodge allows it to effectively flank or close the distance with infantry - So long as you stop to fire, it'll kill most mainline infantry in reasonable time. The Tetratch however, will not.

[tank130]

I don;t get why an underperforming unit, no one uses gets a buff and a price increase all at the same time. 

No one uses?? Not really an accurate description unless "no one uses" really means it is not being spammed as the current flavor of the day.

I have a 20mm and a 50mm in my company and I am happy with the results when I use them wisely.

I recently played a game against Camelsmoker where he rushed 3 - 50mm towards my 3 staggered ATG. Proceed to wipe those out in a matter of seconds (remember phase armor) and then rush my teammates pershing and killed it.

I use my 20mm to flank ATG (gotta love phase armor) very effectively.
I just started using my 50mm and starting to get the hang of it. I find it works best as a supporting unit unless you use it in a pack.

[PonySlaystation]

But isn't it supposed to be a light vehicle hunter and mobile AT support against tanks?

[smurfORnot]

I recently played a game against Camelsmoker where he rushed 3 - 50mm towards my 3 staggered ATG. Proceed to wipe those out in a matter of seconds (remember phase armor) and then rush my teammates pershing and killed it.

if  someone with 3 pumas can kill you 3 atg's and then pershing,then someone rly needs to l2p...axis just spam 50mm's,you can kill everything allies can throw at you with them  

[tank130]

if  someone with 3 pumas can kill you 3 atg's and then pershing,then someone rly needs to l2p...axis just spam 50mm's,you can kill everything allies can throw at you with them  

Smurf, use some thought before you post please.

Due to Phase armor, all 3 atg missed as the 50mm rushed. It was not my pershing, it was my teammates. It was not parked beside the atg......

The point of the discussion is 50mm Puma is a cost effective unit when used correctly. I am not claiming it is OP, I am claiming that it is balanced.

[smurfORnot]

and why are atg's not covering each other more or less? Because u do that to prevent this sort of situation. If u can't kill 1 puma with 3 atg's that is not proving that puma is cost efficient ,but that 'general' is not using his units tactical.

[hans]

i dont think that it matters right now, for me its again kinda theorycrafting.

[tank130]

and why are atg's not covering each other more or less? Because u do that to prevent this sort of situation. If u can't kill 1 puma with 3 atg's that is not proving that puma is cost efficient ,but that 'general' is not using his units tactical.

Please go back and read the previous posts.

I stated the 3- ATG were staggered. That means they are covering each other. Camelsmoker rushed 3 - 50mm Pumas (not one as you have stated)

The last ATG in the group is of course not protected because it is the last in the stagger. The 3 - 50mm Puma where able to rush past all 3 ATG without taking a hit(Phase armor) and take out the last ATG in a matter of seconds. The other 2 ATG turned to attack the 3 - 50 Puma, but it takes longer to turn then it did for 3 - 50mm Puma to destroy the last ATG and rush towards the first two.

In a matter of about 8-12 seconds, all 3 ATG were dead with very little damage to any of the 3 - 50mm Puma. Once the supporting ATG are down, the Pershing did not stand a chance.

It is NOT a case of L2P, it is a clear case that 50mm Pumas are effective for their cost. They are not OP or UP. They are balanced and kick ass when used in packs and skill.

I think what you are failing to take into account smurf, is the effectiveness of phase armor on a fast moving vehicle. Claiming someone needs to L2P because 3 ATGS missed 3 - 50mm Puma driving straight at them is silly.
However, if I had claimed I was flanked and was too slow to respond, you could possibly claim L2P. But that was not the case as was clearly stated in the previous posts.


Conclusion: The 50mm Puma is balanced for it's cost

[smurfORnot]

(not one as you have stated)

never stated that he only rushed one,just wrote that u couldn't kill not one.

very little damage to any of the 3 - 50mm Puma.

since u wrote that all atg's missed pumas,dunno how did they even get little dmg.

ATG has ,what 60 range? So pumas can close that distance before ATG can fire more than 1 shot?

If all atg's missed it's just unlucky roll,because from my usage of puma,thing is not THAT survivable,that I can just drive in front of ATG's and troll 'can't hit me' ...


I guess I will drive some pumas in ATG's next game,and get back to you how it went
If they die,well,you owe me something,lol

[tank130]

It could definitely be just an unlucky roll; never claimed it wasn't tbh.

What it clearly is not - is a case of L2P


So lets get back to discussing fact and stats and knock  it off with the L2P bullshit shall we 

[RikiRude]

is anyone fighting for more puma buff even play with them?

i always get great results out of both pumas. 3x 50mm puma attacks are always quite deadly. the only thing is the inconstancy of puma vs t17s, sometimes ive seen t17s wreck the upgun, other times i see the upgun wreck the 17.

BUT t17 i know is a doctrine vehicle, and of course t17s get buffs to its gun, where as ive stated previously the puma has been ignored other than terror doctrine.

[AmPM]

Please go back and read the previous posts.

I stated the 3- ATG were staggered. That means they are covering each other. Camelsmoker rushed 3 - 50mm Pumas (not one as you have stated)

The last ATG in the group is of course not protected because it is the last in the stagger. The 3 - 50mm Puma where able to rush past all 3 ATG without taking a hit(Phase armor) and take out the last ATG in a matter of seconds. The other 2 ATG turned to attack the 3 - 50 Puma, but it takes longer to turn then it did for 3 - 50mm Puma to destroy the last ATG and rush towards the first two.

In a matter of about 8-12 seconds, all 3 ATG were dead with very little damage to any of the 3 - 50mm Puma. Once the supporting ATG are down, the Pershing did not stand a chance.

It is NOT a case of L2P, it is a clear case that 50mm Pumas are effective for their cost. They are not OP or UP. They are balanced and kick ass when used in packs and skill.

I think what you are failing to take into account smurf, is the effectiveness of phase armor on a fast moving vehicle. Claiming someone needs to L2P because 3 ATGS missed 3 - 50mm Puma driving straight at them is silly.
However, if I had claimed I was flanked and was too slow to respond, you could possibly claim L2P. But that was not the case as was clearly stated in the previous posts.


Conclusion: The 50mm Puma is balanced for it's cost

1 HMG with AP rounds would have wrecked that....

[Hicks58]

1 HMG with AP rounds would NOT have wrecked that.

You'd shred half the health of the first Puma then be flanked and chopped to bits by 50mm and coax fire.

[tank130]

1 HMG with AP rounds would have wrecked that....

Thanks for the well thought out theory crafting......... Any number of things would have countered that if they were on the field at the time or in the company builds.

No one in this thread was asking for a counter to 3 - 50mm Pumas. In fact, the topic is clearly about whether the Pumas were buffed, then reversed buff ; cost versus effectiveness.

I have clearly stated that the 50mm Puma is cost effective.

Please feel free to start your own "Counter the pumas" thread in the Eirr related discussion thread.