[PE] FJs

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[TheWindCriesMary]

Been using them a lot lately trying to find a way to make them work vs the current mass allied inf "mayhem" strategy that is popular (and effective at the moment).

I think a big part of the reason FJs are under represented in the current meta game is their squad size. Bumping them up to 5 men and increasing their cost to 280-300 would be a good (and MEASURED) first step to making them a little more viable.

[Hicks58]

On what grounds?

They aren't under-performing against any Allied infantry that I'm aware of, FG42's wreck most anything on legs. They are a scalpel, and they excel at being used as such. Increasing their cost would hamper their ability to deal with masses of Allied infantry as it'd mean getting less of them tbh.

Have a chat with Heartmann.

[ick312]

heartmann was mostly using  double t3 FJs, which were high priced sturmgrens. But regular FJs suck pretty hard. Yes they should be a scalpel, but they simply arent.

And btw. i mentionend that in a former thread: just compare their stats to others.

[XIIcorps]

heartmann was mostly using  double t3 FJs, which were high priced sturmgrens. But regular FJs suck pretty hard. Yes they should be a scalpel, but they simply arent.

And btw. i mentionend that in a former thread: just compare their stats to others.

Strumgrens ? duh fuck.
Ick FJs are designed to be used with the buffs that hearman uses.
It would be like picking Commandos going Red devils, but not using any commandos in your army.

[ick312]

heartmann was mostly using  double t3 FJs, which were high priced sturmgrens. But regular FJs suck pretty hard. Yes they should be a scalpel, but they simply arent.

And btw. i mentionend that in a former thread: just compare their stats to others.

can you read, corp?

[XIIcorps]

can you read, corp?

i can read fine, i just dont know where this sturm gren unit has come from ? Are they just regular grenadiers and your using historical names ?

[ick312]

i can read fine, i just dont know where this sturm gren unit has come from ? Are they just regular grenadiers and your using historical names ?

ok i am sry. Sturmgrens might be called Assault Grenadiere

regular FJs have 60 HP and soldier Armor.
Sturmgrens have 80 HP and Airborne Armor(-25% received accuracy while moving).

with bot t3 FJs get 15 HP and Airborne armor.
Comparing now the prices: 240 MP + 120 Ammo vs 200 MP + 90 Ammo (note FG42 is on long and mid Range better then stg44)

[Mister Schmidt]

Hey Ick, can you use the in-game names for units please? Not everyone is German.

[GrayWolf]

Hey Ick, can you use the in-game names for units please? Not everyone is German.

Storm Grens... Assault Grens... 

FJs need buff. Compared to other airbourne units they are pretty weak.

[chefarzt]

U talking about the mighty airborne or the even mightier airborne rifles?

[TheWindCriesMary]

post post post post thoughts thoughts thoughts

There are a few things here that are inaccurate with the current metagrame.

1) They are underperforming against allied infantry in the metagame. I recommend playing with them for a few games at the least against the mass cap and/or mass rangers/airborne strategy many allied players are effectively employing at the moment. Unless they get FG42's you will see players get torn to pieces by even regular rifles (smoke + nade combo) or straight up just beaten in close/mid range by rangers with thompsons or rifles/ab rifles with bars and an officer.  If not 1:1 due to good micro on the FJ player's side, with sheer numbers.


2) The small squad size is the biggest problem beyond how they stack up individually to an allied infantry. means a single nade, mortar round (i've seen mortar rounds kill 2-4 men from a single squad reliably), or sniper can immediately cripple a FJ squad beyond functional use. This is compounded when they gain vet as many players try to keep vetted squads alive and retreat at 1-2 men.

2.5/3) Increasing their cost would not mean getting less of them. It would mean getting fewer squads of them in your entire company but being able to have more of them on the field (the place that actually matters) at any given time and making the squads you do have on the field more surviveable. They would also hold their usefulness longer as a bigger squad size has other benefits such as mitigating the damage of a sniper shot (now doesn't gimp a squad to 75/50/25/0 effectiveness but rather 80/60/40/20/0.

So for example if FJs were 300 and 5 pop you'd be able to have 25 of them on the field  at 25 pop versus 20 in the current metagame.

4) No, I am having a chat with this forum as a guy who actually uses FJs. Listen to the experience.

[chefarzt]

Why would you not get fg42`s, i mean spending munitions on upgrades is exactly what inf/airborn players have to do to make their stuff effective?

[TheWindCriesMary]

Why would you not get fg42`s, i mean spending munitions on upgrades is exactly what inf/airborn players have to do to make their stuff effective?

Because FJ's have several weapon upgrades and being forced to buy only FG42s to make them competitive against infantry is poor balance. Especially giving the at-times prohibitive cost this implies.

FJ's were originally intended to be a scalpal but they're not able to effectively fulfill that role at the moment. I'm suggesting making them more of a sturdier crack squad instead as it would help make them more viable in the current metagame where they are grossly under represented.

[nikomas]

Tbh I'm inclined to agree, without the dual T3's they're so squishy it's not even funny and the best part that even with it they're squshier than almost all doctrinal inf out there.

That's without mentioning how bad their base rifles are, without the FG's they're really junk.

[chefarzt]

I dont get it, the same applies to every other allied unit. But yeah 5 man squads without fgs will surely rock the house....

[TheWindCriesMary]

Tbh I'm inclined to agree, without the dual T3's they're so squishy it's not even funny and the best part that even with it they're squshier than almost all doctrinal inf out there.

That's without mentioning how bad their base rifles are, without the FG's they're really junk.

This.

[nikomas]

I dont get it, the same applies to every other allied unit. But yeah 5 man squads without fgs will surely rock the house....

How so? If we compare them to airborne... you realize AB's have 70 health per man and theres 6 of them? That'd be both more health and more men that FJ's.


I literally don't know anyone else in this mod that does decently with FJ's aside from heartmann, and he's gotten a silly amount of practice at it and he runs the dual T3's.

[chefarzt]

Ok and what will ab squads do without upgrades? They'll do  exactly shit all....

[TheWindCriesMary]

I literally don't know anyone else in this mod that does decently with FJ's aside from heartmann, and he's gotten a silly amount of practice at it and he runs the dual T3's.

Yep, and the worst part is that company does not win too often (barely 1:1) and he's probably the most skilled FJ user around. If you make even just a small mistake with FJ's or get sniped once or twice you're dead to rights.

If you have vet on your squads like Heartmann does you basically have to hit retreat at 2 deaths or else run a very high risk of losing them altogether.

[nikomas]

Ok and what will ab squads do without upgrades? They'll do  exactly shit all....

God I wish I saved that replay... quite a bit depending on docs n stuff.