US Balance discussion and doctrines

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[Scotzmen]

Thread for discussion of US units and it's doctrines. Suggestions shall be added to the list ETC

If doctrine related, mark with appropriate color, if unit, simply put unit.

Doctrines:

Infantry

Armored

Airbourne


Units:

Halftrack:
Problem: Causes scar errors when upgraded with .50 in launcher and spawns on field
Suggestion: Make it a default armament and get rid of upgrade
Fix: Pending/fixed

Please keep it orderly and on topic.

[Hicks58]

For the first US issue...

Fix dat Halftrack MG!

[Scotzmen]

Might be in the R008 patch where i made it upgrade by default. Can't remember. Niko said he would have a look at the launcher side of stuff of it.

[Tachibana]

Crusader AA tank:

Crusader definitely needs a look at. As far as I see it, there are 3 main issues.

1.) Low Pop

You are basically getting the firepower of two Puma's on a cromwell chasse for just 9 pop. Compare that to the 12 pop of two pumas or one cromwell. As such, I would say an increase in pop is definitely in order. My preference would be to 12 pop, but, there is room for discussion.

2.) Fuel Cost

As it stands, a crusader costs the same amount of fuel as two quads halftracks while being far less manpower intensive. I understand that they have different roles, but, the survivability of the crusader should come at an extra cost. An addition 20-40 fuel cost bringing it into the 180-200 fuel range seems reasonable.

3.) Ease of vet.

[note: I am using the exp values seen in the RGD's. They, however, do not match the ones in the launcher. In both cases though, I feel the issue is the same.]

As it stands, it is far too easy to get this unit to vet 3 and vet 5 respectively. Prior to gaining vet 3, the killing power on the crusader is reasonable. However, once at vet 3, the combination of the 20% extra damage and the flank speed gained from vet 1 makes this unit very easy to vet up.

Basically, for a mere 62 exp (about 2-3 games worth of work) you get:
Flank Speed
20% extra damage
20% extra accuracy
20% extra health
20% extra acceleration
15% less received dmg

Here is the thing though. I have ABSOLUTELY NO problem with these bonuses. Vetting units should be rewarding, however, crusaders gain these vet bonuses way too quickly. As such, i would like to see a 60% increase in vet requirement through the board.

As such

Vet 1: 6 exp > 10 exp
Vet 2: 25 exp > 40 exp
Vet 3: 62 exp > 99 exp
Vet 4: 125 exp > 200 Exp
Vet 5: 187 exp > 299 exp

This way, the Flank speed can still be gained from one match, but subsequent vet level should require a bit more work than they currently do.


In summary:

I would suggest the crusader become

340 MP
180-200 Fuel
12 pop
+60% req to all Vet levels.

This is just a suggestion. I am not a fan of sweeping changes to be frank, and this does actually seem pretty sweeping, but I feel the unit in question merits it in its current state. I leave it you the coders to decide what is actually needed.

[nikomas]

I dont even know why the halftrack MG is broken, I remember it working last time I patched stuff... granted that was a long time ago.

When did it break?

[Hicks58]

Bring back the Sherman's .50cal sandbags.

The planned upgrade never happened, so you guys should put back the cosmetic, as those sandbags are baller as fuck.

[XIIcorps]

Bring back the Sherman's .50cal sandbags.

The planned upgrade never happened, so you guys should put back the cosmetic, as those sandbags are baller as fuck.

+50% damage from panzerfaust due to normalization 

[skaffa]

Rangers should get some kind of buff to their zooks in Infantry Doctrine tbh, otherwise no1 is gonna use them.

[Scotzmen]

What kind of buff skaffa? What do you feel that they should need?

Decreased reload time? Better accuracy?


Not sure what happened to the sandbags on the Sherman?  I'm pretty sure it caused blue boxes for some people. Me included

[Hobomancer]

What kind of buff skaffa? What do you feel that they should need?

Decreased reload time? Better accuracy?


Not sure what happened to the sandbags on the Sherman?  I'm pretty sure it caused blue boxes for some people. Me included

Ranger zooks are pretty ridiculous with tank reapers FYI.

[Scotzmen]

Tank reapers no longer effects bazookas. Launcher tool tips are so far out of date and only niko can change them!

[Hicks58]

Not sure what happened to the sandbags on the Sherman?  I'm pretty sure it caused blue boxes for some people. Me included

Sandbags were removed as a pre-move towards making the sandbags themselves a purchasable upgrade for the Sherman. It was intended that they would provide incoming damage or incoming penetration buffs vs HHAT, however it never went into action due to the balance issues both with the ingame performance and the concept of dumping munitions into an already munition intensive unit.

However, the sandbags were never re-applied afterwards. Pretty sure it had very little to do with blue boxes, especially considering they are a vCoH item.

[Scotzmen]

I shall see what I can find hicks.  What kind of buffs could sandbags provide and how much?

[Hicks58]

None.

Nothing.

Zip.

Just add the cosmetic back. No need to tinker where it isn't needed.

[XIIcorps]

Sandbags were removed as a pre-move towards making the sandbags themselves a purchasable upgrade for the Sherman. It was intended that they would provide incoming damage or incoming penetration buffs vs HHAT, however it never went into action due to the balance issues both with the ingame performance and the concept of dumping munitions into an already munition intensive unit.

However, the sandbags were never re-applied afterwards. Pretty sure it had very little to do with blue boxes, especially considering they are a vCoH item.

i think it was causing blueboxes with skin packs

[Tachibana]

I think tr atgs were only meant to get like 25-30% bonus rather than the 50% they are currently getting. Will need to look back at mysthalin patch era.

[Tachibana]

Launcher hasnt been properly updated in some time. But yeah, extra buffs to atgs since zooks get 0 buffs.

Same patch says storms dont need t2 unlock for double shrek/4x mp44

[Scotzmen]

Buff to ATG improved to 25% extra accuracy, damage and penetration and +5 range

I read this as applying those buffs on top of the buffs it was already getting.

[skaffa]

What kind of buff skaffa? What do you feel that they should need?

Decreased reload time? Better accuracy?

Give them back their accuracy buff in Tank Reapers T4. According to launcher description it was +15% acc and +15% extra vs tanks.
The description also mentions extra damage and penetration, but keep those out, only add back the acc buff and we see how it plays out.
This way you'll get rewarded for flanking enemy tank by actually hitting it (regular zooks like to miss a lot), but you wont be able to penetrate tanks from the front as easily as before (zooks suck vs frontal armour).

[XIIcorps]

Give them back their accuracy buff in Tank Reapers T4. According to launcher description it was +15% acc and +15% extra vs tanks.
The description also mentions extra damage and penetration, but keep those out, only add back the acc buff and we see how it plays out.
This way you'll get rewarded for flanking enemy tank by actually hitting it (regular zooks like to miss a lot), but you wont be able to penetrate tanks from the front as easily as before (zooks suck vs frontal armour).

So is that supposed to be +15% base acc and another +15% vs tanks, giving a total of +30% vs tanks ?

Given that M1 Bazooka has the following acc
Distant  0.35
Long     0.35
Medium  0.6
Short    1

With the 15% you'd get

Distant   0.4025
Long      0.4025
Medium  0.69
Short     1.15

With the 30%(15%+15%) acc buff vs tanks you'd get

Distant  0.462
Long     0.462
Medium  0.79
Short    1.32

And seems perfectly resonible for a T4

i await hicks to verify this