[US] Airborne Carbines

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[Hicks58]

Can we do something to make Airborne Carbines actually useful to some degree, or simply flat out replace them with Garands?

Airborne are a 280MP 6 man squad which admittedly if they keep moving can take a reasonable amount of shit. However, their offence against other infantry is right up there with throwing bricks at them angrily.

If it weren't for the fact that they have the 25% less incoming acc as they run for cover, Gren squads would probably maul them for DPS against DPS, and they are a good 40 MP less. In fact, I wouldn't be too surprised if a cover-less fight at medium range resulted in a Gren squad winning.

Airborne are pretty lacklustre for elite infantry against other standard infantry. Yes, there ARE Airborne Riflemen, but to be honest, they aren't particularly needed. It would be better if Airborne were just better rounded infantry. Commandos, Rangers, Stormtroops... All of them can competently put down standard infantry without upgrades using just their rifles. Airborne cannot.

My suggestion would be to give their Carbines Garand stats, or make them have a strong DPS at short range, mediocre DPS at medium range, and pathetic DPS at long range, being Carbines. Using the latter approach might be more appropriate considering Airborne have the 25% less incoming accuracy on the move, and would be able to take advantage of relatively decent close range DPS. (NOT to SMG levels by the way, just competently beating rifles at close range)

[LeoPhone]

AB are supposed to have weak AI. It is the only thing that still keeps them kinda balanced.

fallschirmjagers get AI, airborne gets AT.

[8thRifleRegiment]

AB are supposed to have weak AI. It is the only thing that still keeps them kinda balanced.

fallschirmjagers get AI, airborne gets AT.

+1 to Logic

[Poppi]

AB are supposed to have weak AI. It is the only thing that still keeps them kinda balanced.

fallschirmjagers get AI, airborne gets AT.

ya i get that feeling forever, since its been like that since vCoH.

to give them bar or smgs or grease guns to a unit that has descent AT abilities, good health, and fire up ability, and airdrop could be the only unit really needed.
The lmg they get is crappy but does  a better job than their standard shitty rifles, and works great behind cover.
Plus AB riflemen fill in that position.
Only flaw w/o AB rifleman is if you drop AB units somewhere behind enemy lines, they could have no chance to defend themselves. And get owned in an embarrassing manner.

They do get pretty bad ass airdrop HMG and Mortar teams, which make the inf doc look like shit.

This is one doc i want to see completed really bad. Mostly b/c i hope it doesnt just turn into a more supped up version of an inf company. Hopefully AB doc throws in a few off the wall buffs. Or maybe inf doc needs a remake?

[Tymathee]

AB are supposed to have weak AI. It is the only thing that still keeps them kinda balanced.

fallschirmjagers get AI, airborne gets AT.

but you gave Falls the ability to buy at rifles and they get fausts oh and there's also falls tank busters.

Pz grens were given a free g43 because alot of people felt their ai was weak and even on top of that the g43 was buffed.

Can we at least get Garands for AB? I know u say "they're supposed to be AT" but their AI is pretty much non existent unless u toss nades if u upgrade with RR's while falls, which btw are also cheaper mp wise, get fausts if they get a gun upgrade, which also they get a choice of several (g43's, rifle nades and fg42)

so the FJ while being a cheaper platform gets better armor, more options and if u take a vanilla fj, which has 4 men vs a vanilla AB, which has 6 men lmao that AB will not only lose, it'll get raped.

[Tachibana]

I'm fine where Airborne stand. Though, I wouldn't mind seeing them drop from 9 pool to 8.

What I really want is to be able to get the Airborne LMG on Airborne riflemen.

[RikiRude]

leo there is no real logic with your statement. storms, rangers, falls, commandos, ALL do at/ai and they ALL do it well!

bring back AB riflemen, what was the problem with them before? make them like 310ish mp. AB armor, option for bars and  nades, and fireup, no stickies.

take away the lmg, give it to some other doctrine, it just doesnt fit AB, or give it to the rifles. they need a weapon they can fire on the move.

or give regular ab the option for garands or something.

[Tymathee]

there are AB riflemen. they just have infantry armor, normal priced bars (not 95 as before) and no fireup.

and yeah. lmg is kinda retarded for ab since they're at their best on the move, not standing still.

[Poppi]

and yeah. lmg is kinda retarded for ab since they're at their best on the move, not standing still.

really? i thought i did great with them while in a house.

I guess i was thinking in cover staying still LMG will rock since they can use bi pods.

But makes sense. Since in EIRR the smg Greasegun for some reason has the worst accuracy on the move even when compared to the other guns , whywouldnt LMGs be better on the move? Love this ass backwards logic to guns.

[RikiRude]

really? i thought i did great with them while in a house.

I guess i was thinking in cover staying still LMG will rock since they can use bi pods.

But makes sense. Since in EIRR the smg Greasegun for some reason has the worst accuracy on the move even when compared to the other guns , whywouldnt LMGs be better on the move? Love this ass backwards logic to guns.

uhm... you cant fire them on the move lol, thats the problem.

[Katusha]

whine whine whine

What is this i dont even...........

1) FSJ are 4 men vs AB 6
2) You are complaining about FAUSTS, when AB can get LMGS (not to mention nuclear pineapples.. k!
3) Each unit has the perfect type of armor. You can't say FSJ get better armor, because AB get good armor for their job too, as do FSJ
4) Tank shoots at FSJ...down to 2 guys, lose half DPS, tank shoots at AB 1 guy dies..... trololol we still got 2 RR's and we can lose 3 more guys and keep DPS, u mad?


I'm not even against giving garands to AB, but get out of your allies fanboy boot, and go try out FSJ before comparing.

[Tymathee]

Kat...

1) Leo said that AB are AT and FJ's are AI. So when you look at them in their finally vcoh package, FJ's with Fg42's and AB with RR's, FJ are great at AI and ok at AT cuz they have fausts while AB are bad at AI and great at AT, but cost more to do both (nades cost more than fausts and RR's more than fg42's and also cost more in MP)

2) Yes, but FJ's can have a great ai weapon and a good personal AT weapon. Nades are real good yes but way easier to dodge than fausts.

3) FJ's get Soldier armor, which protects them while they stand still or move, while AB armor is only good while moving and is normal infantry armor when standing still.

4) what's that got to do with anything?

and who was fanboying? I just stated facts in my post. I play with ALL sides. I have level 9 accounts in pe, ami's, brits and wehr.

The fact is, FJ's get more options than AB and are stronger, yet cheaper.

I'll make my own argument and counter your argument b4 u even say it.

me: FJ's are better because they get g43's, which get instant suppression and 5 second slow. fg42's, and riflenades

you: but AB riflemen get bar's with suppression fire

me: Yes but g43's are 20 mu cheaper, and fj's can still cloak in cover, get fausts, get anti building nades and sprint, which btw doesn't cause exhaustion. fg42's are really good vs any infantry type but elite armor and rifle nades on fj's just seem to be more awesome than riflenades on tommy's

you: ab riflemen get stickies and nuke nades!

me: yes but AB riflemen lose the ability to fire up, lose their AB armor and stickies are 95 mu, 15 mu more than what normal riflemen have.

you: stop your fanboing, ab are awesome and kill my stuff!

me: -_-

[Rahx]

Hmm, I have to admit... it's fact-alicious

[AmPM]

I think you should make the AB Carbine worthwhile, and remove the stupid LMG.

[brn4meplz]

I think we should not touch any of their weapons but remove the stupid LMG.

Fun Fact #7 Ab can actually win against volks by always moving!

Aside from that AB should never go toe-to-toe with Axis infantry

[RikiRude]

I think we should not touch any of their weapons but remove the stupid LMG.

Fun Fact #7 Ab can actually win against volks by always moving!

Aside from that AB should never go toe-to-toe with Axis infantry

fun fact, infantry that cost 280mp. why ab of all infantry should be so shitty compared to all other elite infantry is beyond me. how about just make it so AB dont have to move to get their bonus? or decrease mp cost and increase rr cost slightly.

sorry, didnt realize the image had been so big!

[brn4meplz]

Why don't Commando's perform better against tanks! I mean come on they cost 310 manpower but their PIAT's can never hit a tank thats moving at 35 range. Gawd! comeon!

My Rangers never penetrate anything except Light vehicles. Even then I have to hit the damn unit first. WTH is wrong with my semi reliable zooks.

250Mu on a 4 man squad! WTF is that man. 1 Tank shot. BAM squad nearly dead.


Yeah the AB Squad isn't great against Infantry. The AB Squads best Anti Infantry asset is the hand grenade. (FSJ get shit grenade) However the have the most reliable handheld AT in the game and the best survival modifiers for their job of any Elite Infantry. They are also the highest Hitpoint Elite Infantry. For these reasons they pay what they do.

[Demon767]

are we seriously gonna buff AB!? Wtf is this, i havent heard such a story in EIR for 2 years!! wait till the doctrine is complete before changing anything jeeze -.-

[PonySlaystation]

Why don't Commando's perform better against tanks! I mean come on they cost 310 manpower but their PIAT's can never hit a tank thats moving at 35 range. Gawd! comeon!

My Rangers never penetrate anything except Light vehicles. Even then I have to hit the damn unit first. WTH is wrong with my semi reliable zooks.

250Mu on a 4 man squad! WTF is that man. 1 Tank shot. BAM squad nearly dead.


Yeah the AB Squad isn't great against Infantry. The AB Squads best Anti Infantry asset is the hand grenade. (FSJ get shit grenade) However the have the most reliable handheld AT in the game and the best survival modifiers for their job of any Elite Infantry. They are also the highest Hitpoint Elite Infantry. For these reasons they pay what they do.

Not really. Commando Piats and Ranger Zooks are both great handheld AT. Airborne have no AI infantry. Their pool value is so high that it's not worth it to have unupgraded airborne or upgraded with lmgs and airborne riflemen are worse than regular riflemen (again because of pool value and other issues). Grenades are not really great on RR squads since they're not supposed to be battling infantry anyways.

So you can say that they don't need AI infantry/weapons, that may be true. But you cannot say that what they've got can perform that role well. Carbines are worse than Garands and that is just wrong.

[Mysthalin]

Brn, you are being ridiculous. You can't possibly justify a 280 MP airborne squad losing to bloody volks which cost 190 MP.

What you are saying about airborne winning vs volks if they always move is a lie.

The moving accuracy of the carbine almost entirely counteracts the accuracy decrease volk K98s get when shooting at airborne. Considering the fact you're not going to be able to shoot all of the time while moving (there will come a time where you'll move sideways or backwards), and that the volks can simply take cover(much higher boost) you'll simply get raped with the airborne.

They are also the highest Hitpoint Elite Infantry

At 70 HP/man they are outdone by grenadiers (80 HP/man), KCH (90 HP/man) and Storms (95 Hp/man). Squad Hp is fucking irrelevant because it will not in any way shape or form save you from splash damage (being 6-man only makes it worse), nor does damage "spill-over" when a squad member is at low health and is hit by something that deals a ton of damage.

Your comparison of AT assets is childish and yet again, completely irrelevant to the discussion. What you are comparing are UPGRADES, not the units themselves. If you pay more for an AT asset in the sense of munitions - you SHOULD get more out of the AT asset at the job it's meant to do. As far as I'm aware - the RR is more expensive than the PIAT, and RIDICULOUSLY more expensive than the bazooka. You would expect the RR to be a lot better than either the PIAT, or the Bazooka - and the platform has nothing to do with it.


And finally, F U C K AB riflemen and their BAR. The reason why AB became retarded last time it had a doctrine was because everything about it was long-range. The RR - long range, the BAR - long range, yet becoming only better if you engage it at shorter ranges. Everything screamed "Yeah, we rape you at long range but if you come closer it's only getting worse". So I propose to F U C K the BAR. Replace it with the M2 carbine upgrade, which I've already proposed in another thread. Oh, and firesparks : F U C K the lack of "effects" in making the weapon. Just replace the sound of the carbine with the thompson, or borrow some sort of automatic weapon sound from another mod. There's tons of them.