*

Account

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
November 06, 2024, 12:41:38 am

Login with username, password and session length

Resources

Recent posts

[November 01, 2024, 12:46:37 pm]

[October 05, 2024, 07:29:20 am]

[September 05, 2024, 01:54:13 pm]

[July 16, 2024, 11:30:34 pm]

[June 22, 2024, 06:49:40 am]

[March 08, 2024, 12:13:38 am]

[March 08, 2024, 12:12:54 am]

[March 08, 2024, 12:09:37 am]

[December 30, 2023, 08:00:58 pm]

[February 04, 2023, 11:46:41 am]
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Stug  (Read 9391 times)
0 Members and 18 Guests are viewing this topic.
hans Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3497



« on: January 22, 2013, 04:29:59 pm »

it has 40 range. Wouldnt it make sense to give it 45 range in line with other tankdestroyers? With range increase we can also higher the costs a bit and the pool. Makes sense for me.

what do u think?
Logged



Also, bad analogy ground, My vegetables never pissed on my ego when I decided they defeated me and gave up on dessert.
ick312 Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 534


« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2013, 04:56:26 pm »

hi,

well yes it would be fair and should be standard (besides doc buffs), the counter agrument will be that the stug has a very good, armor for its price. but yes i still think that + 5 range would be fair

greetings ick
Logged

I don't know Wind, that whole 21 virgins thing kinda peaked my interest a little .......
From fucking kids to fucking christ, jesus heartmann. Just stop already you filthy monster, you are only making it worse
Hicks58 Offline
Development
*
Posts: 5343



« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2013, 05:43:47 pm »

Try to hold in mind two factors:

1. It's 150/175 Fuel.

2. It's not a TD. How many TD's do you know of that can reliably chop up infantry? (Without crush)
Logged

I mean I know Obama was the first one in EiR to get a card. and tbfh the Race card is pretty OP. but Romney has the K.K.K., those guys seem to camo anywhere. So OP units from both sides.
At the end of the day, however, stormtroopers finally got the anal invasion with a cactus they have richly deserved for years.
hans Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3497



« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2013, 05:48:44 pm »

Try to hold in mind two factors:

1. It's 150/175 Fuel.

With range increase we can also higher the costs a bit and the pool.
thats why i wrote this tbh

2. It's not a TD. How many TD's do you know of that can reliably chop up infantry? (Without crush)

is the stug that reliable in killing inf? turret rotation is missing in ur description. its disadvantage for the stug.

Stug is from my point of view no medium tank and also no tankdestroyer with the current state. lets give it a nice role ?
Logged
Hicks58 Offline
Development
*
Posts: 5343



« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2013, 05:51:37 pm »

The MG that it has is one of the best tank mounted MG's you can get your hands on. Turns it into a nasty piece of work vs infantry, suppressing in one burst.

StuG's are for people who want cheap and disposable. If you want a TD with staying power, get a Panther.
Logged
hans Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3497



« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2013, 05:56:00 pm »

The MG that it has is one of the best tank mounted MG's you can get your hands on. Turns it into a nasty piece of work vs infantry, suppressing in one burst.

StuG's are for people who want cheap and disposable. If you want a TD with staying power, get a Panther.

just because it has a nice mg that suppresses well doesnt mean that it should not perform as a TD regarding range. i dont take the stug for AI reasons, if the p4 does it more reliable.

Iam not talking about changing the stug completely, iam just sayin that it could need +5 range. Panther does better in killing tanks, no doubt.
Logged
Tymathee Offline
Donator
*
Posts: 9741



« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2013, 05:58:41 pm »

this argument has been made before and the conclusion came to this pretty much.

It's not a tank destroyer in line with the US TD's.

Part of the reason ami TD's have 45 range is because of their low health and armor, where as stugs are more tough to penetrate than even the p4.
Logged

"I want proof!"
"I have proof!"
"Whatever, I'm still right"

Dafuq man, don't ask for proof if you'll refuse it if it's not in your favor, logic fallacy for the bloody win.
Hicks58 Offline
Development
*
Posts: 5343



« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2013, 07:32:32 pm »

It can take down any target with an equal cost or less than it's own easily enough.

Even better, it can take down a 220 FU investment in the shape of a 75mm Sherman, and give a 260 FU investment in the shape of a 76mm Sherman a good run for it's money.

Honestly, the tank performs fine. I used to use it quite a lot and frankly loved it. Just gotta be a little careful in it's use and be mindful of the environment. If your opponent has equal range, open ground. If your opponent ranges you, find some shot blockers or a town.

Then again, it really is one of those tanks where you can justify bringing out a second, if just one isn't enough.
Logged
Valexandes Offline
Donator
*
Posts: 280


« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2013, 09:30:51 pm »

Very low pop cost for tank.
If the range increases the effectiveness is dramatically increased and the pop would be too low.
I think as is it is good
Logged

the nashorn is like a kid with a giant penis, it has no idea how to use it or where to point it most of the time but it could still fuck you

Your mom, and your grandma wont know....
RikiRude Offline
Donator
*
Posts: 4376



« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2013, 09:36:47 pm »

its fine!
Logged



Quote from: Killer344
Killer344: "Repent: sory no joke i just had savage diorea"
... or a fat ass cock sucking churchill being stupid
AmPM Offline
Community Mapper
*
Posts: 7978



« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2013, 11:54:26 pm »

this argument has been made before and the conclusion came to this pretty much.

It's not a tank destroyer in line with the US TD's.

Part of the reason ami TD's have 45 range is because of their low health and armor, where as stugs are more tough to penetrate than even the p4.

This would be much more important if AT across the board didnt get so many buffs. The STUG's armor is useful vs a decreasing demographic of units and it's HP is almost as low as an M8's.
Logged


.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Mysthalin Offline
Tired King of Stats
*
Posts: 9028


« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2013, 02:03:48 am »

it's HP is almost as low as an M8's.

In pure percentage terms that's about as accurate as saying that a Pershing's health is almost as low as a Churchil Mk 4's. The StuG's health is exactly that of an M10.


That being said - I do agree with Hans. The StuG has greater armour and a lower population and resource cost than an M10 - but that is where it's advantages end. It suffers from a lack of a turret, a significantly lower mobility and lower firepower (especially if accounting for penetration) to boot. These three things alone would make it seem to me that the range disadvantage is simply unnecessary.

There is of course the argument that the MG42 upgrade on the unit is amazing - but what does that do for the base unit? An M10 is able to crush much better than the StuG can without the need for an upgrade - and can do so with quite higher impunity given the lack of stickies it has to dodge. Furthermore, if the MG42 upgrade is indeed so star-spangled awesome, then perhaps it should be repriced accordingly to its function, or maybe integrated into the unit as a base with a higher resource cost associated with the StuG. We don't slap an extra 100 muni base cost to Stormtroopers just because they can get double shreks, and we're not going to remove KCH heroic armour because 4-man KCH are just flat out better than the 3-man version.

The StuG itself? 5 more range will allow it to function a little bit more to the function of it's much closer cousin - the Hetzer, which rolls around with a nice little 50 range and other benefits with regards to the StuG which most people probably already know. And even with these benefits the Hetzer is having trouble maintaining much field presence in the current metagame. Honestly, I don't believe adding 5 range to the StuG as a standartization, combined with a potential 10 FU price increase, will do much to skew the balance in the axis favour. You'll still need somebody to scout ahead for the StuG so it can actually utilize the range.

Myst's seal of approval for giving the StuG some range.


P.S. Although I will argue that Fuel and Munitions are the main factors to look at when deciding how important pricing is with regard to most units - for the StuG manpower becomes relevant as well. You're spending up to 3000 manpower to equip yourself with 10 stugs, while 3 panthers would not set you back a mere 1800. This Manpower to Fuel ratio becomes very important - especially given that StuGs are generally "intended" as a supplement to heavily infantry-oriented armies.
Logged

Smokaz Offline
Honoured Member
*
Posts: 11418



« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2013, 03:32:32 am »

I like giving it +5 range and trading some manpower for fuel with it, take off 60 mp and add like 30 fuel.

Read myst post and I think it needs more fuel than that. A 45 range stug will free up a lot of pak / shrek munitions.

Quote
You'll still need somebody to scout ahead for the StuG so it can actually utilize the range.

Volks w/faust (as im sure you are ejaculating about using with 45 range stug alrdy)
« Last Edit: January 23, 2013, 07:23:21 am by Smokaz » Logged

SlippedHerTheBigOne: big penis puma
SlippedHerTheBigOne: and i have no repairkits
SlippedHerTheBigOne: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
hans Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3497



« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2013, 08:47:42 am »

keep in mind, that we also have to adjust the pool then. Having 10 stugs with 45 range is too much if thats even possible.
Logged
NightRain Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3908



« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2013, 09:16:09 am »

keep in mind, that we also have to adjust the pool then. Having 10 stugs with 45 range is too much if thats even possible.

Even if it did have 45 range, the only tanks who would worry about it are those with 40 range and even they would pounce off shells. Other tank destroyers would return fire. Basically it becomes a little mobile pak gun that has no turret but for compensation has MG and good frontal armor with the lack of proper HP. And if anyone starts spamming StuGs they'll notice plenty of troubles in terms of other units.
Logged

Because a forum post should be like a woman's skirt. Long enough to cover the subject material, but short enough to keep things interesting.
hans Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3497



« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2013, 09:18:34 am »

Even if it did have 45 range, the only tanks who would worry about it are those with 40 range and even they would pounce off shells. Other tank destroyers would return fire. Basically it becomes a little mobile pak gun that has no turret but for compensation has MG and good frontal armor with the lack of proper HP. And if anyone starts spamming StuGs they'll notice plenty of troubles in terms of other units.

okay true.
Logged
TheVolskinator Offline
Administrator / Lead Developer
*
Posts: 3012



« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2013, 09:19:58 am »

StuGs are close to rubbish without doctrine buffs as is; bear this in mind before going against a range increase. The StuG is is intended as a 'tank destroyer', though infantry support is important for it as well. Generally speaking, it's just about the worst Axis armor there is; at least a pack of 3 50mm Pumas will annoy someone. Multiple stugs warrent 1-2 ATGs and that's that. I have to say, buff them.
Logged

Quote from: tank130
I want to ensure we have a 100% decision on the process before we do the wipe.
If not, then I wipe, then someone gets something they shouldn't, then it gets abused, then the shit hits the fan and then I ban shab.

Getting EiR:R Released on Steam

Forum Rules & Guidelines
Smokaz Offline
Honoured Member
*
Posts: 11418



« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2013, 11:10:51 am »

10 stugs without skirts?
Logged
hans Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3497



« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2013, 11:12:40 am »

10 stugs without skirts?

i have to admit i dont know it. Maybe iam wrong.
Logged
EliteGren Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 6106


« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2013, 11:23:52 am »

I will lol if StuGs start kiting shermans
Logged

i prefer to no u
Don't knock it til uve tried it bitchface, this isn't anything like salads version. Besides u said a semois conversion would never work, now look that's the most played map, ohgodwhy.jpg r u map lead
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

TinyPortal v1.0 beta 4 © Bloc
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.9 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.086 seconds with 36 queries.