What would spark your interest in EiR2

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[Illegal_Carrot]

Sorry to be a debby downer here, but there should absolutely be no plans to release EiR2 while EiR is in such a terrible state. I bet half our target audience thinks that EiR has long since been abandoned, and I bet the other half would be reluctant to put up with all the bullshit, waiting, and heartache that a brand new mod would ask of them, after seeing how EiR1 turned out.

The best way to grow the community, increase interest in EiR2, and get everyone willing to get on board and stick it out, would be by picking EiR back up, and having a solid 2-3 months of updates, improvements, and evolution of gameplay. Once the team has a good work-flow going, and have proven to the public that they can handle the task in front of them, then we can humor some real conversation about EiR2.

[tank130]

Sigh....... another person who doesn't read all the posts before replying......

EiR:R is broken to a point of no return. We really don't give a shit about trying to fix it because frankly we are tired of beating a dead horse. The least you could do is have a little respect for the guys that actually do all the work and  understand that we just don't feel like working on something that really can't be fixed.

We are starting over, taking what we have learned from the first mod, and building a new mod. That's called progress in the real world.

[Illegal_Carrot]

The other posts in this thread are of no consequence here. You asked what would get the public interested in EiR2, and I gave you the honest answer: noone will be interested in EIR2 if they see you abandoning EiR like a sinking ship and, at this point, I doubt anyone even believes that the dev team can even do any sort of competent job on EiR2.

Starting over when you haven't learned any lessons isn't going to accomplish anything. You'll just fuck up again, for the same reasons, and that doesn't do anybody any good. Reviving and revitalizing EiR is an entirely-possible task that lays before the team (and is realistically the only way to get EiR2 off on the right foot), but fixing a majority of what's wrong with the mod is actually a rather simple task. Just cut down on all the bullshit that's plaguing the mod right now, have some actual transparency, documentation of gameplay features, and communication between the dev team and the community, and actually put out a few updates.

[XIIcorps]

Eir isnt inheritanly fucked, i mean the only real fucked thing would be the launcher, and the domino effect thats caused when anything is changed with its coding.

If EIR2 was to use a better launcher with a less implosive coding, then things could be done far simpler to benefit the mod, like doctrine changes etc.

[GrayWolf]

noone will be interested in EIR2 if they see you abandoning EiR like a sinking ship and, at this point, I doubt anyone even believes that the dev team can even do any sort of competent job on EiR2.

This is true. Why would I play the same thing, just with a bit different balance? Or if you want to leave EiR 1 for dunno what time... 6 months and count that someone will still play it... Well good luck m8s :/

[tank130]

The other posts in this thread are of no consequence here. You asked what would get the public interested in EiR2, and I gave you the honest answer: noone will be interested in EIR2 if they see you abandoning EiR like a sinking ship and, at this point, I doubt anyone even believes that the dev team can even do any sort of competent job on EiR2.

Starting over when you haven't learned any lessons isn't going to accomplish anything. You'll just fuck up again, for the same reasons, and that doesn't do anybody any good. Reviving and revitalizing EiR is an entirely-possible task that lays before the team (and is realistically the only way to get EiR2 off on the right foot), but fixing a majority of what's wrong with the mod is actually a rather simple task. Just cut down on all the bullshit that's plaguing the mod right now, have some actual transparency, documentation of gameplay features, and communication between the dev team and the community, and actually put out a few updates.

Are you guys fucking retarded? No really, the only possible explanation is you are full fucking retard or you are trolling.

Carrot, take that "transparency" slogan and shove it up your ass. No really, just bend over and shove it as far as your fat little fucking fingers can go.

How transparent do we have to be. We post every detail of what we are thinking of doing, we post notes of everything we have done. What the fuck do you want, team viewer on my computer so you can watch me when I view my porn? Seriously dude, there is 3 guys on the fucking dev team and we post everything we do.

Here's your biggest problem with our transparency - you don't read all the  forums before arriving back after a year absence, then shoot your mouth of about shit you have no clue about. Perhaps your idea of transparency is we send a pm to you, Or perhaps you would like me to mail your ass a letter with a detailed explanation.

Here's some transparency for you - I think you are a fucking idiot for making this post without researching the other forum posts, or even reading this forum post in it's entirety.
It is absolutely impossible for this Dev team to be any more transparent than what I have already posted.

FOR EXAMPLE

Most of everything you have posted here is exactly why we are forced to start over.

Doctrines:
5-6 years of testing has proved without a doubt that the current doctrine system does not work. It will never work, it can't. We have proven that it is impossible to create 252 Free, unique, fun/interesting, meaningful abilities, balanced against each other.
Looking back at it now - whoever came up with the idea obviously had gone full retard.
Even if we kept the current system and scaled it back, or perhaps add costs, it would require massive recoding of the launcher.

Launcher:
I don't think you guys truly get how fucked up the launcher has become. When it was first created is was never intended to do all the shit it does now. It was created on a system that just can't handle what it does now - hence the crashes and resource usage.
Every time a change to it was made, it was put in like a band aid fix.
If you go into the code and make a small change to anything, it can cause a catastrophic wave of bugs across the whole system.

It may appear like just little issues need to be fixed, but to make those changes requires an insane amount of coding time because it's a cluster fuck. It may seem hard to believe, but we calculated it will take less coding time to create a completely new launcher than it will to fix the old one.

The platform of the new launcher will also allow us to make radical changes without creating the cluster fuck of code we currently have. In fact, it will allow us to essentially run multiple mod types on one launcher. Not that that is our plan, but that is how flexible the new launcher can be.

In a nut shell:
It is less work to start over than it is to try and fix what is broken. It is pointless to waste anymore time on a doctrine system that will never work.

EiR2 is not CoH2. Originally that was the plan, but the reality is we do not see CoH2 becoming fully moddable for a long time. When we realized we are basically fucked trying to fix EiR:R and CoH2 was not going to happen, it just made sense to rebuild EiR into something that can easily be amended later if CoH2 becomes moddable.

So for the record: Creating the new launcher and revamping doctrine design is part of completing EiR:R to 1.0

Wow!

This is awesome guys; really great ideas.

Our goal at this point is to get EiR2 up and running. The simplest starting point is using our current mod. We will try to get this current mod redesigned to fit the new launcher and game style. There are a couple of reasons for this:

1.) The obvious: CoH2 is not moddable yet
2.) By using our current mod we do not need to be focused on the balance end of things. We can just work on the game design and mechanics.

We already know how CoH2 works, so we will build everything to be compatible and then implement the new units when & if CoH2 ever becomes moddable. It is obviously much more complicated than that, but you get my point.

Eirrmod & Xeoniz have already started working together on the new launcher. The launcher is the most integral part of the whole thing and will take the longest to put together.

This is the projected rough time line for the launcher:

- Develop the chat / teams / guild type code.
(1 Month)

- We develop a company creation test area (Nothing fancy) and battle creation area, where 'how battles are made' and other topics have decided we do it.
(1 Month)

- THEN we start on some company creation systems.  Multiple systems all existing on the same launcher so we can switch them / change them if the community hates them.
(2 months)

Starting over when you haven't learned any lessons isn't going to accomplish anything. You'll just fuck up again, for the same reasons, and that doesn't do anybody any good.

Oh I get it, you think we are a bunch of fucking idiots who will just keep banging our heads against the wall creating the same fucked up system we currently have. Right, that makes sense. Invest 100's of hours of our free time to rebuild a completely broken system only to replace it with exactly the same broken system. Do you have any idea what a fucking asshole you sound like right now? Do you have any idea how much I wish I could reach through this screen and just bunch you right in the mouth?

but fixing a majority of what's wrong with the mod is actually a rather simple task. Just cut down on all the bullshit that's plaguing the mod right now, have some actual transparency, documentation of gameplay features, and communication between the dev team and the community, and actually put out a few updates.

Simple task you say...... really, tell me more about how you intend to do this simple task please. Tell me more about how you intend to document the game play features. Are you planning on doing that on a Wikki, or are you planning to do that on the Launcher, or are you planning to do that on the forums? What kind of format were you thinking of doing that in? Please enlighten us very stupid Dev team members of how you intend to do that. Obviously we can't do it or we will just make the same mistakes again - we all know just how stupid the dev team can be.

Oh..... you didn't mean you would do the work. You meant someone else should invest those hours of free time for you so that you can come in here and bitch about something else without reading the other posts first.

Eir isnt inheritanly fucked, i mean the only real fucked thing would be the launcher, and the domino effect thats caused when anything is changed with its coding.

If EIR2 was to use a better launcher with a less implosive coding, then things could be done far simpler to benefit the mod, like doctrine changes etc.

Wow....Bingo, give this guy a medal. In two short lines he has summed up the entire reason we are starting over. Your grasp of the obvious is outstanding!

[GrayWolf]

That is exactly what every single balance patch is though? The same thing but with different balance, and you play after every single balance patch, so your argument has no merit what so ever.

Do I play? Do you play? No? Is EiR dead? Yes? Your argument has no merit what so ever. The problem is that you have to keep on making balance patches, so community has to change their tactics, not use the same OP shit. There's real lack of versality(?) in EiR/OMG, because you cannot change your tactic much since you started the game.

No offence from my side, but what you have to change is the meta-game. I know you guys are working on it, but there's no even a BT. Since OMG is back alive and receiving t2, t3 and t4 in a near future (t2 is live in 1-2 days) and I'm pretty confident about wulfi's mod, it's normal that some guys will play less often.

Would be cool if someone start brodcasting or sth

[Hicks58]

EiRRMod and Xeoniz are working on the EiRR2 launcher.

Cool. Good to hear. Look forward to trying that when it's done.

But.

An RGD patch can be wrote out, coded and put out in a week and that's accounting for communication lag. Worst case it's a couple of weeks, three at a push when things come up (Hence why the rotation was every half month for RGD patches).

So why hasn't there been a full RGD patch for four months? Why has the SP/TA been left in their extremely powerful forms, why has the Defensive Officer been left to uber-stack it's buffs, so on and so forth. These are things that can be fixed easily with an RGD patch. There's no lack of things to be done RGD side.

You could even use EiRR1 as a testbed for things to put in for EiRR2 using STRICTLY RGD changes, such as a completely different repair system being transferred to engineers and the likes.

Nothing has been done, and NONE of that requires either EiRRMod or Xeoniz, so WHY not? There's been no reasoning behind what could be done very easily, just silence. We've heard shit tons about how EiRR2 is in the works and that is fantastic... But what about the EiRR1 work that is more than capable of being done?

Niko doesn't take four months to get something done, somebody grills has ass long before that - So where has the chain gone limp? Tank uploads the patches, and he can do that any old day so I sincerely doubt it's him holding up the RGD chain, so that leaves the person organising the notes. So, if the Balance Lead is incapable or unwilling of putting together some notes, why not just get somebody in who has the time or drive to get it done?

You guys have had ample time to do something with EiRR1, be it refining it or going experimental on it whilst EiRR2 is in the works, but it's just been left there.

[tank130]

Now, finally someone with something intelligent to say, thanks Hicks.

You are absolutely correct Hicks and I wish I had something profound to say, but here's the truth.

You quit the Balance team leaving us fucked once again. Then Mysthalin made a big show of stepping to the plate, but instantly vanished leaving us fucked again. Then our "Mystery" balance guy who did not want to be publicly named made one tiny post about some items, but then vanished because Mysthalin said he was coming back - leaving us fucked again.

Nikomas claims he wants to patch something, but does nothing because he somehow feels every patch must contain a shit load of stuff, rather then fix 1 or 2 bugs.

For years we have asked people to join the Dev team to help, but within a week or two of getting dev access they realize it is not some secret place with cool shit going on. It is a place where you are expected to do some work that 90% of the time will be criticized by the majority of the community.
Then they realize that you may actually have to take some responsibility for your work or heaven forbid admit you made a mistake and they get pissy & leave.

The inquire I really love is "I don't know how to code, but if you teach me I can help". Or the people that come in to code, but only want to code shit they agree with. Or they want to completely change how the game works so refuse to do anything at all.

Who the fuck would even want to be involved in balance these days? Using a team of balance people proved to be a colossal waste of time with members either not showing up daily to keep it productive, or just arguing and over analyzing a topic for 2 months.
Having a single balance guy resulted in decisions based on that persons play style and a stubbornness to accept an error in judgment.

I am left here to try organize a team, but here's what I have to organize:

Our fearless leader who actually works on the mod about 3 times a year claiming great stuff is gonna happen but never delivers.
Our RGD coder who doesn't even post here anymore, but when he does it certainly is not about what he has done or going to do

And then we have Xeoniz who is actually extremely motivated to do some work, but can't because Eirrmod still hasn't got anything organized for him to do.

So to be completely honest, if you want to bitch at someone about the current state of the mod, send your PM's to Eirrmod. He is the entire reason this mod is stopped and failed. He has always been the bottle neck that has stopped production and completely demotivated every member of our development team. Every time I get a team motivated to work, they loose it in a few months when they realize the real issue of the mod will never be fixed.
Hell, it took 2 fucking years for me to be able to patch because we waited for Eirrmod set me up on the fttp.
For two months Eirrmod has claimed he is setting up some kind of github thing or whatever the fuck you call it so Xeoniz can start coding the launcher, but it still hasn't happened.

Am I ranting..... yes your fucking right I am ranting. I have busted my ass for 4 years to try and save this mod, but the whole reason it has sunk is because the man at the top will not give up control but refuses to get the work done.

I run a business and often work 12 hour days and I still find the time to be here everyday. I even found the time to teach myself how to build a website from scratch.
But the unemployed guys we have on the Dev team just can't seem to find anytime in the day to get the shit done they promised to get done.

So ya, send you concerns to the top - via Eirrmod.

[Katusha]

Damn EIR is a soap opera now

[GrayWolf]

Damn EIR is a soap opera now

Now I'm just waiting for Cozmo's return....

[Hicks58]

I could give you a full and eloquent response to that Tank, but frankly I'll sum it up in one sentence.

I've sank a year of my time, done what I can, made my mistakes and fixed them where I could.

So instead of elaborating on that, here's something more useful. A suggestion.

Make a hard copy of EiRR1 in it's current state (Like, an offline backup on your comp of the current game, the SQL, etc), then go ahead and give Niko the lease to fix, balance and change whatever the hell he wants. Worst case he fucks up and you just roll back, best case things go somewhere with EiRR1 and we either see some balance or field test some new mechanics that could one day be put into EiRR2. You said yourself that EiRR1 is pretty much done with at this point, so what is there to lose?

I don't want a damned thing to do with development any more, but likewise I'm not keen on watching the mod I've put a large amount of time into sink out of... Idleness and excuses.

[tank130]

Niko was given the go ahead over 2 months ago

[Shabtajus]

so if eirr2 is in work and eirr1 will be killed, let it be since we will have a better mod in the future but after reading tank's post i dont feel so confident about eirr2 anymore.

i just dont get it how some people can fuck things up so bad? eirr idea is so great and game play is so fun and still mod is going down..

i played this mod for 2 years now and eirr saw good and bad times and now once again apocalypse riders on the roll meh np few weeks later all gonna be cool lol

[GORKHALI]

maybe remove the warmap and reward cards, and change back the mod to where we had commanders upgrade , warmap has fucked up more then do good,

I must say Tank130 u got a lot of patience and endurance to go through all of this,

I think everyone can stop QQ abut how bad the mod has become and start playing so coders like nikoms will be encouraged to throw the patch , with everyone abandoning eir, is not going to get anyone anywhere .

so guys how about some real gameplay,...  

[aeroblade56]

maybe remove the warmap and reward cards, and change back the mod to where we had commanders upgrade , warmap has fucked up more then do good,

I must say Tank130 u got a lot of patience and endurance to go through all of this,

I think everyone can stop QQ abut how bad the mod has become and start playing so coders like nikoms will be encouraged to throw the patch , with everyone abandoning eir, is not going to get anyone anywhere .

so guys how about some real gameplay,...  

yes of course lets all play a broken mod.

[GrayWolf]

I think everyone can stop QQ abut how bad the mod has become and start playing so coders like nikoms will be encouraged to throw the patch , with everyone abandoning eir, is not going to get anyone anywhere .

Shouldn't it be different? nikomas makes patch so people may play? And it's not QQ. It's real. There was 4 months of "we'll make a 1.0 EiR before we release EiR2". There was no patch since then, people started to make stupid threads and shit. I got banned so I left. OMG is back alive so I have no real reason to come again. Maybe a proper balance patch would change sth.

[aeroblade56]

Shouldn't it be different? nikomas makes patch so people may play? And it's not QQ. It's real. There was 4 months of "we'll make a 1.0 EiR before we release EiR2". There was no patch since then, people started to make stupid threads and shit. I got banned so I left. OMG is back alive so I have no real reason to come again. Maybe a proper balance patch would change sth.

good stay gone.

[GrayWolf]

We should just delete around 5 pages of this stupid soap opera and go back to the topic.

[GORKHALI]

wtf does it matter if a big patch or a small patch how long will they be happy, when everyone figures out how to counter the new op shit everyone starts leaving again , then patch then some comes back play 1 week maybe 3 or 4 days then leave again , and then starts QQ oaut patch again no wonder if the patch runs out maybe that is wat happend eh, the only players who always keep playing r like 8 players in total,

played like 3 or 4 omg mod in the past not gonna play again , srsly it is as broken as eir mod so which mod u play its the same,its the war map which confuses new players and why the hell do we need to register for launcher anyway ,.... make so that forum password and username is enough to get into launcher , i know there is a guideline but its too confusing for lazy players who don't read 

how about gather the best patch parts which were thrown in the past and make a big patch , that might be intreasting .