State of Balance

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[aeroblade56]

bye bye storms. it was nice knowing you... Take care!

The ones who are complaining are the ones who never playes with them tbh...

You have any idea how fucked you are if one rifle squad and engi flamethrower squad run into you?

if you get pinned?-blitzkrieg/keep it movinh

if you get uncloaked by a tank?-blitzkrieg/keep it moving

I dont know, but dual shreck storms is probably the unit with most threats except snipers tbh.

But obv you seem to listen to them who complain the most?

also stormtroopers have never been an issue until now, people have never complained before.

i can sum with up pretty well.

Blitzkrieg also if you decloak a storm with a tank your fucking retarded lol  2 double schreked storms vs 1 sherman

Insert brilliant face meme here----->

[AmPM]

Sure they can hit and run.
Storms can cloak and ambush.

yay fireup, with the negative of a cooldown and exhaustion.
No penalty for using cloak.

And Tym goes full retard and believes schreks are good in smoke. Want to test? Do some long range fire at a stationary target. What schreks miss, RRs hit.

EDIT: Back in the office and not on my phone. Tym, cloak has a huge disadvantage, it makes you slow. Oh wait, slow isn't a disadvantage right? So destroyed engine means nothing....

Stormies with dual schreks are pretty good, but by no means impossible or even that hard to counter. If they escape after hitting your tank you are doing it wrong. They are still just grenadiers, so kill them like grenadiers. Hell, no one complains that dual schrek grens are OP. So it must not be the weapons. This leaves either the little extra HP or the cloak as your reason for crying.

Cloaking is stupid in and of itself on every unit that has it, and I firmly believe that all bikes/jeeps/etc should have Infantry and Vehicle Awareness out to 20m or so. Hell, you could remove cloak except in cover from all units and make teh game better IMO.

[aeroblade56]

yeah no tym, Schreks do not perform like RRS in smoke.

[tank130]

Stormies with dual schreks are pretty good, but by no means impossible or even that hard to counter. If they escape after hitting your tank you are doing it wrong. They are still just grenadiers, so kill them like grenadiers. Hell, no one complains that dual schrek grens are OP. So it must not be the weapons. This leaves either the little extra HP or the cloak as your reason for crying.

Cloaking is stupid in and of itself on every unit that has it, and I firmly believe that all bikes/jeeps/etc should have Infantry and Vehicle Awareness out to 20m or so. Hell, you could remove cloak except in cover from all units and make teh game better IMO.

I don't think it is fair to compare shrek storms to grens with shreks. You are missing a very big piece of the puzzle - cloak

Combining moving cloak with 120 damage is where the problem lies IMO. Bringing on a jeep to spot is destroyed within seconds.

Moving cloak on anything other then snipers is just retarded, but I doubt it will ever get removed.

If the BT refuses to adjust shrek storms, then I suggest we make jeeps and tommie recons capable of spotting cloaked storms well outside of the storms firing range. This unfortunately screws mp44 storms too.

Storms are not a big problem. Dual shreck storms are.

[Hicks58]

FYI, the Panzershreck has a 1.25 damage modifier with close range splash.

The target that is hit by a Panzershreck actually takes 150 damage, not 120.

[AmPM]

I posted a long time ago the easiest method is to just remove the dual schrek option. Still decent AT, still cloaks, leaves the units buffed to make Stormies effective.

Sadly, BT is mostly clueless and we continue to get shit updates and changes.

Oh wait, we are doing ANOTHER doctrine rework, which will lead to a whole other pile of unit rebalacing and doctrine balancing. Great, cyclical balance....

Also, moving cloak even on snipers is stupid, they should have to setup, stay in position and fire from outside normal engagement ranges.

[Mysthalin]

I posted a long time ago the easiest method is to just remove the dual schrek option. Still decent AT, still cloaks, leaves the units buffed to make Stormies effective.

Sadly, BT is mostly clueless and we continue to get shit updates and changes.

You do realise that is exactly what me and the other people arguing against stormtrooper double-shreks have been pushing for, right? Removing double-shreks as an option and keeping everything else the same? With perhaps some buffs to the stunted StG44 storm?

[hans]

I posted a long time ago the easiest method is to just remove the dual schrek option. Still decent AT, still cloaks, leaves the units buffed to make Stormies effective.

Sadly, BT is mostly clueless and we continue to get shit updates and changes.

Oh wait, we are doing ANOTHER doctrine rework, which will lead to a whole other pile of unit rebalacing and doctrine balancing. Great, cyclical balance....

Also, moving cloak even on snipers is stupid, they should have to setup, stay in position and fire from outside normal engagement ranges.

tbh with the current changes i rly fear the new patch update. Hope they get the curve again ...

[tank130]

I posted a long time ago the easiest method is to just remove the dual schrek option. Still decent AT, still cloaks, leaves the units buffed to make Stormies effective.

Sadly, BT is mostly clueless and we continue to get shit updates and changes.

Oh wait, we are doing ANOTHER doctrine rework, which will lead to a whole other pile of unit rebalacing and doctrine balancing. Great, cyclical balance....

Also, moving cloak even on snipers is stupid, they should have to setup, stay in position and fire from outside normal engagement ranges.

I disagree about the snipers. They can not kill their counter (jeeps/bikes) and have very low health. I guess if you made them real cheap, stronger they could loose the moving cloak. I don't think snipers are a problem, so really no need to adjust them.

I don't think we need to be making personal insults at the BT. You need to keep in mind that this is a very controversial topic with a lot of people of each side. Just because the BT does not follow your thoughts does not mean they should be slammed.

I completely disagree with the changes made to storms so far and feel they are not addressing the real issue. However, I respect the process they work with and that they may not always agree with what I or others think. Many people are happy they are not changing storms, so lets not be a dick with t he insults.....

[AmPM]

You do realise that is exactly what me and the other people arguing against stormtrooper double-shreks have been pushing for, right? Removing double-shreks as an option and keeping everything else the same? With perhaps some buffs to the stunted StG44 storm?

Yes. I still don't think there is an issue with double schreks, coming from playing Armor all last war they weren't much of an issue. However, I do agree that if they need to be fixed that the best and simplest way to fix the issue is to remove the double schrek option.

Then again, I knew I needed a way to counter them, and used jeeps with BARs nearby to keep them away...

[hans]

Yes. I still don't think there is an issue with double schreks, coming from playing Armor all last war they weren't much of an issue.

excuse me?  u are nt playin anyway so how can u judge??

[AmPM]

excuse me?  u are nt playin anyway so how can u judge??

I play a few times a week.

[Tymathee]

I dont find double schrecks to be as much of an issue lately but they've been a pain since i first started eir tho.

I dont know what to do to fix them, I just find it crazy that they took double schrecks from grens and made them a doc unlock and didn't do the same with storms, but now they are so I want to see how that works.

[puddin]

Storms that only walk, while invisible, extreamly exposed, and 2 shermans can take down 2 squads, and supress one with front armor facing,especially with 50 cals on top. 

2 squads of storms only hurt to rear armor hits, and when it gets down to 2 men. 

Yes, They CAN kill a jeep with 2-3 shrek hits, I have seen many jeeps take 1 hit because they expose them at a good size range.

Blitz has no indirect fire besides a mortar..... Yes its heavy Anti tank with Man Packed AT.... 

If this is changed, The jumbo needs to be nerfed down, because It Fill a heavy tank roll Infantry is missing, Double Shreck Fills that AT roll that Blit is missing, Without any Arty support. 

[Hicks58]

Extremely exposed? While invisible? wat?

2 Shermans can take down 2 squads? Yeah, that's 24 pop of tank sat in front of the 10 pop of Storms. Said Blitz player could have a sodding Panther sat next to them with all that spare pop - Which would wreck your day. Oh wait, theory crafting! We avoid doing that in balance discussions for a reason (If I have to explain it, it's because it's circular logic and no fucker ends up going anywhere with it)

Blitz has the nebel as well as the mortar.

Not only that, wtf does indirect fire have to do with AT units? Indirect fire is for disposing of infantry/support weapons 99% of the time.

If you want to defend dual shreck Stormies that much Puddin, could you at least get some evidence that means something please? Some hard facts or?... You know. Just something lol.

[AmPM]

Hicks, because when looking at balace at a doctrine level you have to look at strengths and weaknesses.

They really should have more weaknesses in doctrines, with extreme specialization from T4's....

[Tymathee]

Show me a pair of infantry that can survive dual shermans I'll show you OP.

[puddin]

Hicks, Considering the ONLY BUFF the Storms have gotten in 5 years, is Gren supression resistence.  Now, Since this Elite armor Bullshit tier 4 has come into play people complain they are to strong...

I think You need to open your fuckign eyes.  I Stated that they have had NO FUCKIGN CHANGES.

Tired of idiots in this mod who argue balence without thinking.  

So Riddle me this MR Facts Man.  

Why is it, After 5 years with only one change, a change that took place around 2 years ago when double shrek Grens were removed....(another disscussion for another day), is it now that they are an issue.....

OH SHIT BATMAN!!!! A TEIR 4 WITH ELITE ARMOR CAME OUT?  MONTHS AND MONTHS AGO? O....M....G.... its only taken what, 6 months or 8 months for them to realy become an issue....

ya know what, theory crafting?  I bet if i look at your last 10 threads you speak of in balence, i will Put 100 dollars into the donationbox if 90% of them don;t include your ass theory crafting.  



long story Short, Storms have had 1 thing changed from VCOH..... And besides that budffed through doctrines..... Sounds liek the doctrine needs changing.  

Oh wait, That makes to much Sense... nerf them, change them, Make them EIr compliant so that no VCOH player can reconize them, Give them different abbilities, call them balenced change the doctrine, balence i again, change the doctrine to balence it, wait, change it all, Now revert it back and call it a day.  

I will save You time, Leave them the fuck alone, they are a doctrine specfic unit, thaat are very squishy and vulnerable and priced so astronomically high that its ludicrious....

[tank130]

Puddin,

Knock it off with the rage posts and personal insults or you will be removed from the balance forums.

[tank130]

Why is it, After 5 years with only one change, a change that took place around 2 years ago when double shrek Grens were removed....(another disscussion for another day), is it now that they are an issue.....

I don't really have time to file through all the threads, but a quick search shows me that dual shreks and storms in general have been a controversial subject since 2009.

http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=10450.0
http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=9524.0